Update on my one year Public Mutual Fund

I invested in both Public Ittikal and Public Regional Sector Funds on 29th June 2006. So now it is around one year since then. Here are performance charts for both of them.

Public Ittikal Fund:
Public Bank Mutual Fund Ittikal Performance Chart graph

Profit: 47.33%

Public Regional Sector Fund:

Public Bank Mutual Fund Regional Sector Performance Chart graph

Profit: 35.44%

But don’t forget about the management fee and agent fee which is around 6.5% if I’m not mistaken.

I’m going to meet with my agent soon. My next step transfer my regional sector into some islamic fund. I haven’t thought about which fund yet(any idea?). Then, I’m going is to set up standing instruction to do regular saving into the funds.

That’s all for now. Will update after I’ve met with my agent.

  1. #1 by puffpower on May 22, 2007 - 1:22 pm

    Hi. nak tanya. Kalau refer kepada Unit trust performance -the lipper leaders- contohnye the 3-year total return (46.99% as at march 30 2007 between period of 31/3/6-30/3/7). does that include or exclude the entry fee+management fees?


  2. #2 by Irwan on May 22, 2007 - 5:20 pm

    im not sure but in my best opinion, the report from lipper does not include other fees. It just state the increase of value from the given time frame.

  3. #3 by puffpower on May 22, 2007 - 5:46 pm

    Thanks irwan. I also have the same opinion abt the entry and mgmt fees as written by Azizi Ali in one of his report. Unfortunately somebody of the public ittikal’s i think (who managed 30million worth of investor money) claimed other wise (in one of the forum). so kalu u boleh confirm tat would be very helpful.Thanks

  4. #4 by puffpower on May 22, 2007 - 5:58 pm

    ops..lemme re-phrase..I also have the same opinion as yours too and. same goes as written by Azizi Ali in one of his report.

  5. #5 by Irwan on May 22, 2007 - 6:01 pm

    haha… i got u on your first try… ill meet up with my agent tomorrow, ill ask her about your question

  6. #6 by Irwan on May 23, 2007 - 5:44 pm

    my agent said it’s just the capital gain, meaning it doesnt include any other fees.

  7. #7 by Hasbullah Pit on May 24, 2007 - 7:51 am

    lipper table & graf public mutual, kedua2 tu merujuk kepada prestasi.
    belum tolak fee

  8. #8 by puffpower on May 24, 2007 - 8:39 am

    Thanks Irwan,

    and to En. Hasbullah, saya pun rase cam tuh..baru notice some note down kat lipper table tuh, goes as follows>…it is calculated on a NAV basis to NAV basis with gross income or divident reinvested, and DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT into account any sales or redemtion charges

    Maksud yang sama kan? and sales or redemtion charges = entry,annual fee etc?but some agents do insisst otherwise.

    perhaps kene tanye agen2 cam ne nak calculate bendalah ni
    En Ali menginvest sebanyak rm10k pada 31/3/6 dan pada 1/4/7 Encik Ali bercadang untuk menjual sume invenstemtnye. Berpandukan fakta the lipper (3-year total return 46.99% as at march 30 2007 between period of 31/3/6-30/3/7), berapakah keuntungan Encik Ali? p.s: Encik Irwan boleh tanyekan agen u tu tak..or En hasbullah ke..tak kisah le sape2..tak yah le berebut..hihi..time kasih

  9. #9 by puffpower on May 24, 2007 - 8:42 am

    p.s Irwan yr note>But don’t forget about the management fee and agent fee which is around 6.5% if I’m not mistaken.>> for ittikal entry fee=6.5%, annual/mgmt fee=1.5%. For 1st year 8% easily goes to the fees je, i think

  10. #10 by Irwan on May 24, 2007 - 5:39 pm

    many people loathe mutual fund because of high initial fees. that’s why the recommended investment period is between 3-5 years. but based on current performance, 8% is small compared to return close to 50%.

  11. #11 by Hasbullah Pit on May 25, 2007 - 1:46 am

    untuk kes encik ali.
    assume service charge = 6.5 %
    anual fees = 1.5 % .

    kalau nak kira kasar, drpd 46.99 – 6.5 – n(1.5)
    kalau kes encik ali tu mungkin dia dah kena anual fees 1 kali.
    jadi 46.99 – 5.6 -1.5 = 38.69 %
    10k x 138.69% = 13869.00

    kira untung 3,800 je la.

    kalau kes encik ali tu real,
    toksah jual semua,
    jual 10k drpd 13.8k tu, lepas tu 3.8k tu switch ke balance fund.

  12. #12 by Irwan on May 25, 2007 - 10:42 am

    yeap.. i can confirm En Hasbullah’s calculation.

    It’s not advisable to keep the investment for only 1 year because of high initial fees. The average peryear fees decrease in every year of investment:

    1-year : 8%
    2-year : 4.75%
    3-year : 3.67
    4-year : 3.125%
    5-year : 2.8%

    this explains the recommended investment period of 3-5 years for mutual funds.

  13. #13 by Helmie on July 13, 2007 - 12:12 am

    Hi everyone, I am a new, im want to ask, From a newspaper Utusan, in public mutual fund for example ittikal fund, promotion price per unit is rm0.29, I invest rm1000 on 12 july 2007 and let say this 28 July 2007 market will close at RM1.30 and i sell it all. Calculation:

    Profit per unit= rm1.30 – rm0.29= rm1.01 per unit
    Total unit= rm1000/rm0.29= 3448 units
    Total Rm after unit sold= 3448 x rm1.01 = rm3482

    Net profit = rm3448-rm1000= rm2448


    1. Is it my calc correct?
    2. My investment is in a short period less than 1 yr even a month, if above situation is real happen, is it posible i can get profit rm2448 according to this situation?
    2. As i said, my investment is less than a yr, how about my annual fee and others service charge?

    Hopefully Mr Irwan or Mr Hasbullah can help me to understand these basic things in investment. Thank you.

  14. #14 by Irwan on July 13, 2007 - 10:05 am

    Hi helmie,

    basically the calculation is correct. It’s just the promotional price RM0.29 is not.

    Usually promotional price like that only applies to newly launched fund. And newly launched fund would never achieve 300% growth in 2 weeks.

  15. #15 by kkchow23 on July 13, 2007 - 1:41 pm

    Let’s begin with the basic, what investor have to pay when they purchase unit trust/mutual fund?

    Upon the purchase of units of the funds by investor, a service charge of 6.5% (equity/balanced/dividend) while 0.25% (bond/money market) is deducted from your initial investment. For Public Mutual does not impose any repurchase charge on the sale of fund units by investor.

    Other charges involved are for switching and transfer transactions. (Mutual Gold member free of charge)

    The rest of the fees such as management/trustee fee, etc.. are all calculated and could be obtained from Accountants’ Report in prospectus. That’s the reason why investor should read to understand more. But if you don’t, can always ask agent. Management/trustee fee is calculated and accrued daily, and payable monthly to the Manager/Trustees. There’s where the source of income come from for Fund Manager and Trustees. So don’t worry, obviously they’ll try their best to make sure the fund performs.

    I think many have been mislead to think that the profit still need to deduct any other management fee. To make simple, investor only need to pay service charge.

    As in Irwan’s example for his funds. Just need to deduct 6.5% of the profit shown in the figure. That’ll will be the rough profit for that particular fund. It might be more or less depend on the price purchase and distribution reinvested/unit slip, etc… As in Irwan’s case PITTIKAL earns about 40.83% (47.33-6.5)

    Hi Helmi,

    I’m not sure what NAV price you’ve purchace your Public Ittikal Fund. But probably I can show you an example:

    Public Ittikal Fund (PITTIKAL)
    Amount Paid : RM 1,000.00
    Sales Charge (6.5%): RM 61.19
    Amount Invested : RM 938.81

    Price (RM) : 0.2900
    Units : 3237.29
    Total Cum Cost (RM) : 1,000.00
    Avg Cost Per Unit (RM) : 0.3089

    If current NAV price now is RM1.30.

    Units : 3237.29
    Price (RM) : 1.3000
    Amount Redeemed/Repurchase (RM) : 4208.48

    Profit = RM4208.48 – RM1000
    = RM3208.48
    Estimate return : 320.85%

    This is only replica and not the actual performance.

    If anyone wants to know more about Public Mutual and the funds offered, you can contact me:

  16. #16 by powerpuff on July 13, 2007 - 5:43 pm

    here’s my PAIF calculation, if according to Mr chow’s calculation-and would u kindly verify πŸ˜‰

    Date Investment 18/12/07
    Investement rm5860.00
    buy NAV=0.2674
    charge=6.5% (entry) 1.5%(annum)=8.0% >>take the worst case
    Exact investment=5860-468.8=5391.2

    NAV(sell) on 19/06/07=0.317
    Current investment price=0.317*20161.55=6391.21
    Duration=183days/365~6 months

    However, my agent has forwarded me my investment statement stating
    and with NAV 0.2674
    holding unit=21,914.73

    if furthur calculated, the %gain=18% (twice the actual gain,if according to Mr Chow’s calculation)

    and I asked where the deduction of 6.5% goes. She explained, but with enough effort to understand, I finally never understand ;(

    It’s really mysterious world out there-in unit trust πŸ˜‰

  17. #17 by Helmie on July 13, 2007 - 8:11 pm

    Thank you Mr Chow n Mr Irwan for the explaination. I curious about

    1. ‘account billing’ that state in New Investment Form. What is account use for? Whats the diff and benefit?

    2. From my understanding, investor will get dividen instead of profit from unit sold. Is it more benefit if i reinvest my dividen?

    3. I decided to think in long term in managing my financial. Is it public mutual fund meet my needs?

    Thank you for ur time.

  18. #18 by kkchow23 on July 13, 2007 - 8:11 pm

    hi powerpuff,

    based on your date of investment : 18/12/06

    Public Asia Ittikal Fund (PAIF)
    Amount Paid : RM 5,860.00
    Sales Charge (6.49%): RM 357.21
    Amount Invested : RM 5,502.79

    Price (RM) : 0.2511
    Units : 21,914.73
    Total Cum Cost (RM) : 5,860.00
    Avg Cost Per Unit (RM) : 0.2674

    At 19/06/07, NAV price is RM0.2987.

    Units : 21,914.73
    Price (RM) : 0.2987
    Amount Redeemed/Repurchase (RM) : 6,545.93
    Profit = RM6545.93 – RM5860
    = RM685.93
    Simple Estimate Return : 11.71%

    This is true if there’s no additional investment or any distribution reinvestment/unit slip etc (any transaction between both dates).

    If you used Public Mutual(fund performance graph):
    Simple Estimate Return : 18.96 – 6.49 = 12.47%

    I’m not sure why there’s a difference of 0.76% using graph and calculation. This is probably due to the management/trustee, etc fees not yet deducted. Cause I’m not sure how the graph at Public Mutual website is compute.

    Was wandering if my calculation are correct compare to your statement, powerpuff??? How I wish I was your agent πŸ™‚ seems like I’m doing that job already but not earning anything πŸ˜› But I don’t think it’s best to sell it off now unless need to use the money cause if wait until financial year end 31 Oct, there might be distribution.

    Really glad to be helping out here, and to be able to learn at the same time.

  19. #19 by kkchow23 on July 13, 2007 - 9:38 pm

    Hi Helmie,

    1. I think you’re refering to “Investment Application Form”. For each investment in Public Mutual fund, you’ll be given an account. This is for your reference when you want to do any transaction etc. eg XXXXXXXX-X (X represent numbers). The column at the bottom “Direct Debit Authorisation Form” (DDI) or Standing Instruction (SI). Basically, this gives authority to Public Bank to deduct from your Public Bank saving account and invest in Public Mutual fund that you purchase. This actually is beneficial as it cultivate a saving habit in you without you having to go to the bank to do transaction always.

    2. Depending on which fund you purchase, certain funds will give distribution (vary with the performance). Public Mutual will announce whenever there’s a distribution/unit split etc… Actually you’ve the option to choose whether you want to reinvest or payout. Please read at “Investment Instructions” column. But if you’re planning for long-term investment, then reinvest. This will eventually add on to your investment, which will grow more with time.

    3. I’m not sure of your financial state as at the moment. Probably this will need some time to understand your background, such as income, asset, liability, burden etc..
    But investing in unit trust is definitely a very good option for you to decide, it’s a good investing tool especially to accumulate wealth while trying to beat the inflation rate.

    Public Mutual, subsidiary of Public Bank have been winning most awards for 4 years in a row. This gives a good track record of its performance. This is in terms of meeting few criterias which are consistent return, preservation and total return. This doesn’t mean that other banks are not performing, but in terms of choosing the right funds to invest in.

    If you don’t mind, probably we can meet up to discuss more regarding your investment portfolio.

    If anyone wants to know more about Public Mutual and the funds offered, you can contact me:

  20. #20 by powerpuff on July 18, 2007 - 1:45 pm

    Hi Mr chow,

    Thanks for that generous verification of yours on my previous query. I guess i just missed that ‘average’ terminology used to present the NAV (in the given statement).And that my agent missed to note the ‘actual’ NAV price bought on 18/12/06(Price (RM) : 0.2511).

    Perhaps, thats the beauty of being a unit-trust agent : assuming that everybody will absorb the very same format of calculations, while leaving some others (like me) in the desert of mystery πŸ˜‰ Believe me, i’ve posted the very same questions on the web and none of other u.t. agents have answered me satisfactorily except yourself;)-hope this’ll be a good promotional remark for other readers/potential customers out there

    On the other hand, I guess all agents were groomed to tell customers not to worry so much about the fees since the predicted return will evaporate the cost of the fees into the thin air, WHILE stating “Past performance should not be taken as an indication of future Performance” at the very last line of every Market Wrap Bulletin πŸ˜‰

    Just another curiosity, you have stated >At 19/06/07, NAV price is RM0.2987.However, the following was my personal note on the NAV price of the same date. Why did u take 0.2987 instead of 0.3181 of the sell price? because the other following table will show the current price as at yesterday (wonder why the format in the p.m web change too-last time have nav buy & sell, now only NAV)

    fund nav/buy sell change cange% service charge mgmt fee
    PAIF 0.2987 0.3181 0.001 0.34% 6.49% 1.55

    Fund NAV Chg Chg % S.Charges Management Fee (%)
    PAIF 0.3133 -0.0023 -0.73% 6.500 1.550

    Yet another curiosity, u have stated > This is true if there’s no additional investment or any distribution reinvestment/unit slip etc (any transaction between both dates).So if I were to make additional investment, how’s the calculation looks like. Will there be ‘another’ average NAV recalculation? And going back to En. Hilmi’s question, if there’ll be dividen distributuion and we would like to re-invest, same question applies πŸ˜‰

    I’m not sure why there’s a difference of 0.76% using graph and calculation>> oh yes…can anybody answer that πŸ˜‰

    okie do, as promised I end my question here.Yes, it was kind of charity work you did here to help curious-ppl like me, But in return I think it is going to help yourself too by telling ppl out there that ” hey, I REALLY know what I am doing,so pls be my guest ” πŸ™‚

    Best wishes,

  21. #21 by kkchow23 on July 20, 2007 - 1:26 pm

    Previously, the rule stated by Securities Commission, Malaysia (SC) is that every unit trust company must publish the selling and buying price for the funds available. The selling price (purchase) and buying price (repurchase) actually make investor know the price and value of their investment from time to time.


    From the calculation example PAIF:
    Buying price (RM) : 0.2511
    Selling price (RM) : 0.2674 (investor purchase)

    Buying price (RM) : 0.2987 (investor repurchase)
    Selling price (RM) : 0.3181


    The new ruling from SC is that every unit trust company now have to state how much they charge investor when they purchase units. Therefore, only the NAV price is shown. From the NAV price, add the service charge (6.5%) and that’ll be the selling price actually. The buying price is actually NAV price since they’ll be no repurchase charges.

    To find out more do checkout my blog. Be updating on an article regarding pricing.

  22. #22 by sumijeli on July 26, 2007 - 8:46 am

    Herrr.. i have just make investment on Public Mutual Property and Resorts Fund. I just am a strong believer in property. Good luck to myself.

  23. #23 by kkchow23 on July 26, 2007 - 9:33 am

    Hi sumijeli,

    The most important is that we’ve invested. Whether it’s in equity, balanced, real estate, bond, etc… This is because what we really want is our money to grow. There’s no point if we work hard for our salary and 5 yrs, 10 yrs… it still remain the same with our savings.

    For PFEPRF fund recently launch by Public Mutual is a moderate fund aiming to give annual income every year. It’s less risky compare to equity funds.


    I know someone will be very happy with the performance of his funds this year. Irwan’s PITTIKAL roughly gives 55.95% total returns. After deduct service charge,it’ll be bout 49.45%. Imagine RM10,000 during 2006, now it’s worth RM14,945 now.

  24. #24 by kkchow23 on July 26, 2007 - 9:57 am

    Well, I’m happy too that my investment in PIEF since 28/08/2003 is now giving bout 105.52% (according to fund performance graph). After deducting service charge, it’s bout 99.02%. However, after more accurate calculation.. ends up bout 91.19%. But still it’s good enough as I’m almost getting back my cost (double my money) in 4 yrs. Roughly bout 18% return annually.

    Imagine from basic FD rate 4% and 18% return. It’s actually shocking how much we’ll be losing out.

    If your interested to know more, do contact me or check my blog http://financial-freedom-unit-trust.blogspot.com/

  25. #25 by putuskira on August 14, 2007 - 11:12 pm


    one good thing in mutual fund that is sometimes forgotten, is the re-investment option… annually, when the distribution slips arrived, we can choose not to cash out the distribution, so it is re-invested…this, is gonna be MUCH useful for the fund… thats also the reason it is advisable to aim at a longer period, 3-5 years, not short-term only…

    p.s. irwan, noticed that you and me have similarity…we both start investing in PMutual at about the same time..i’m just a month earlier than u..only that i take ittikal and PIEF…

  26. #26 by Irwan on August 14, 2007 - 11:19 pm

    nice to know that I’m in the same ship with you. now i’m with Ittikal and PIDF. let’s see how our funds strive over time.

  27. #27 by fiza on August 15, 2007 - 2:49 pm

    So..the total return will keep changing bcoz of NAV price..let say my return on 07/06/2007 is Rm400 bcoz the price 0.3267..but now the price is 0.3181 so my total return getting lower than before..

    Help me to clarify this..thanks

  28. #28 by Irwan on August 15, 2007 - 3:16 pm

    yes.. your total return will drop if current nav drop.

  29. #29 by kkchow23 on August 15, 2007 - 11:56 pm

    It’s best to keep it simple by just refering to buying and selling price.

    When you redeem, it’s always be at buying price/ NAV per unit price since there’ll be no repurchase charges.

    Your estimate return will always fluctuate based on the current NAV per unit, but your units will remain the same if there’s no additional reinvestment, distribution reinvested, unit split, etc..

  30. #30 by New_Investor on August 22, 2007 - 9:26 am

    hi irwan, just wannna ask something regarding standing instruction(SI).i was told this SI will help so much when the market Fluctuate up and down. which one is better, paying lum sum in the investment or setting SI every month? i’m planning to invest RM10k. pls advice….

  31. #31 by kkchow23 on August 22, 2007 - 1:47 pm


    Standing Instruction is a way to practice Dollar-Cost Averaging. It takes consistent discipline in order to do it manually. But by this matter, you’ll have no choice but to deduct straight from bank account.

    The benefit of dollar-cost averaging can be refer here : http://financial-freedom-unit-trust.blogspot.com/2007/07/dollar-cost-averaging-principle.html

    It’s not to say lump-sum investment is not good, but depend on the price at that particular moment (high/low).

  32. #32 by Irwan on August 24, 2007 - 3:32 am

    i read an article long ago but now i’ve forgotten where it’s now. The article discuss about this; if you have a lump sum of investment money, is it better to make a lump sum investment or try to simulate regular savings.

    According to the article, with a little bit of market timing, lump sum investment is better. I don’t remember how they come to this conclusion but of course, you cannot apply this rule to every market.

    the difference between lump sum and SI is the risk. so the choice is yours. but if i were you, i see recently low but recovering market is a good time to take a little bit more risk. but make the choice in regards to your risk profile.

  33. #33 by green on September 29, 2007 - 1:46 pm

    Salam / Hi guys,

    just want to know whether the PB Mutual’s selling price is equivalent to buying price. Example, from


    PAIF 0.3239

    means we can use 0.3239 as a buying price to calculate the profit.

    Thanks in advance

  34. #34 by kkchow23 on September 29, 2007 - 5:12 pm

    Hi green,

    If you would like to know more about the calculation for the funds, please refer to this:

    Currently there’s no longer buying and selling price. SC has implemented single pricing:

  35. #35 by green on October 1, 2007 - 6:29 pm


    thanks for the confirmation.

  36. #36 by kkchow23 on October 2, 2007 - 3:36 pm

    To keep it simple, you can assume :
    Selling Price = NAV service charge
    Buying Price = NAV

    *This is not applicable to all, as some company charges for repurchase.

  37. #37 by lukman on October 15, 2007 - 10:45 am

    Correct me if I’m wrong, if I’m not a gold member, and I switch funds, I need to pay switching fees right? Where as CIMB states for their funds at 4 times free switching per year even for small fish?
    No switching fee will be charged for switching within the CIMB Islamic Kausar Lifecycle Funds series and CIMB-Principal Lifecycle Funds series.
    However for switching from other CIMB-Principal funds into the Fund, any switching fee applicable to be charged will be based on the difference between the Application fee charged by the fund to be switched from and the Fund.
    The Manager imposes a RM100 administrative fee for every switch made out of a CIMB-Principal fund. However, this RM100 administrative fee is waived for the first four (4)switches out of a fund in every calendar year.

  38. #38 by mr a on January 14, 2008 - 10:54 pm

    nak tanya…kalau invest dalam trust fund macam public mutual ni kita bole top up ke every end of the month macam asb….atau kena deposit large amount masa mula then tggu untung after 5 year……..thank you

  39. #39 by df on March 2, 2010 - 4:12 pm

    Great content and very helpful thank and keep up the good work.

  40. #40 by amir on May 1, 2010 - 5:56 pm

    salam..saya sbenarnya x tahu apakah itu public mutual, so bleh x sapaΒ² kat sini terangkan skit pasal ni?

  41. #41 by amasy on May 6, 2010 - 5:37 pm

    hi amir, saya cadangkan labur dalam trust fund terutama Public Mutual Fund. saya mula labur dalam sekitar tahun 1993 semuanya guna duit dari EPF dan ada lebih kurang 10 fund yang berbeza…. kalau tak silap lebih kurang RM75K. Dan sekarang saya dah ada 550,000++ unit. kalau jual semua lebih kurang boleh dapat rm280k++ tapi bukan boleh keluar dari epf pun…. saya anggar dalam 9 tahun lagi nak pencen saya dah ada rm 1.3M – 1.5M dari trust fund itu pun saya kira 18% accumulated margin tiap tahun.

    ingat…cari agen yang baik dan mula dari fund yang murah dulu… tunggu selepas 3 tahun dan kita akan nampak hasilnya. duit epf memang tak cukup untuk tampung kita pencen nanti… yabf penting itulah harta kita tinggalkan untuk anak-anak dan isteri kita.

  42. #42 by Simweehaw on September 8, 2010 - 2:12 am

    Hi Irwan,

    I’ve been investing in PM for quite a while and have been using the switching strategy to time the market the best I could since I monitor exchange rate and stocks for my daily work. I have 2 questions:

    1) How strict is PM about the 21 days switching rule? The fineprint says PM reserves the right to reject any switching transactions if its done within 21 days of purchase/switching. Sometimes we can’t wait for 21 days when the market requires us to switch (either cut loss or lock in profit). I have switched before 21 days a couple of times and they were all accepted so I’m not sure how strict this rule is. I’ve called PM before and the guy told me they’re not very strict as long as the switching within 21 days is not done TOO often. But he couldn’t explain to me how OFTEN is OFTEN? It’s so subjective. I’d prefer not to accidentally repurchase when they reject my transaction so can you explain to me? Thanks!

    2) In the PM gold status brochure, it says we can qualify if we have 100k MGQP. And it says MGQP is added if we switch into equity funds and MGQP is deducted when we switch out of equity funds. But my MGQP has been the same since I started investing in PM even though I have been swicthing. How does that work? and what happens when I do reach 100k? Can I call them to ask for the status? And if it drops below 100k for some time, how long is the grace period before my gold status is disqualified? 3 months? 1 year? It’s not very clearly stated. Coz sometimes when the market is at the peak, when i switch out of equity funds and into bond funds, what happens to my MGQP and gold status?

    Thanks for your time and hopefully you can give me a clear explanation for the above.


  43. #43 by Armanda Mcdavis on November 9, 2010 - 2:21 am

    grievous diary you procure

  44. #44 by Murray Loi on November 13, 2010 - 3:26 pm

    I was the geek to some of my friends yet once you have picked a you will have to contact the merchant and ask lots of questions.

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